Feedback Friday's for Production

[Jeff MacdonaldModerator]

I know your pain with other peoples kits. I think for me it comes down to many drummers misunderstandings or misconceptions about tuning, or head choice for music styles. I have been walking around for a couple evenings with a floor tom hitting it and listening, my better half thinks I'm nuts. There is also, in my opinion nothing more difficult than recording low quality cymbals, but I am not a huge fan of guys that don't hit well playing my hand hammered stuff.

For mics I like 57's on the snare top and bottom, Oktava mk-012s on the hat and ride, I go between Advanced Audio CM-414s, CM-12SEs and CM-87s on the OH depending on the day. I have a pair of cheap Chinese ribbons that look like 121's I gutted (replaced the ribbons and transformers) I use for stereo rooms that I am really enjoying. I am also falling in love with PZMs for room mics in weird spots like on the ceiling, right in front of the kit - that has been some fun experimentation. I am an Audix guy for toms D2, D4, D6 as they get lower, I have 421s but I find they always need way more eq, and they are very large and harder to place. On the kick I have been loving a Beta 52 through an API pre into a DBX 160X, but if I, or the client wants a basketball then the D112 comes out. I don't like the Audix D6 too much on anything other than metal and hardrock, but I find the 52 does that just fine. I also have a 10" Subwoofer I like to run as a subkick but find myself enjoying LDCs out front a bit more lately. My favourite mic position though right now is a 57 pointed at the shell of the snare about 3" back centred between the rack and floor tom. I slightly modified Moses Schneiders 'wurst' mic technique. It's an amazingly full sound that loves compression.

I have a couple of old saltshaker, telephone handsets and PA mics that are in the 'To-do' bin to get fixed up to act as weird room mics but I am spending far too much time working on the room right now to fix them up sadly.

Cheers,

J

[Michael HordorwichParticipant]

Oh yeah hear ya on the tuning. I've had some drummers think I'm nuts when I ask on a particular song if they could tune to the song and I even have a tuner and they're still confused. When I play on my own songs I don't always tune to the song but sometimes I do think it works! Gotta love the kits with original heads some broke taped with duct tape lmfao. Or yes as you said cheap cymbals OMG nothing more shrilling sounding and I can never get them sounding good in the ohS, Only time I cringe at people using my customs or paistes are thee bashers with no dynamics or the guys with the cymbals super high out of reach lmao, too many stories I have. I'm definitely taking your advice on the 57 trick thanks for that. Lately I haven't even miced the hats as I rarely use them I get enough out of the oh's, I mean I have the best mica and enough of them but heck I'll even use the glyn Johns technique, xy or stereo pair depending on the drummer. Oh and I also stopped micing the bottom snare as again I rarely use it so just more noise and I can't stand too much snare wire sound but Man your technique you told me about with the 57 on the snare will be perfect for my setup. Also too I found some really old mics I'm going to try to use for rooms just to see. I'll show you some pics if they sound good. Let me know how the telephone and other stuff works. Oh and I can only use a beta 52 on bass drum I don't like the d112 but tell me how good is the dbx160x, I just bought the dbx166l, haven't tried it yet, hoping it's cool like the older 160's . Another ? If you don't mind is about the audix mics,as I absolutely love my 421's on toms but scared cause I just bought 4 new ones that a basher will hit them so looking for an alternative not just for that but even though my fav is the 421's tell me more about the audio if you don't mind, compared to the 421's' I do have a couple of electrovoice mics I like a lot. So any hints or ideas I'd appreciate, again my fav setup is 57 snare top, beta 52 kick, 421's toms, sm81's oh's, c414 oh's or rooms, Mojave ma200 tube mic room just started trying this as I bought it for vocals heck it was $1,200 so I said heck try it on a mono room mic. Oh and I never tried to use a subkick or another bass drum so any techniques for that as I have plenty of mics and drums so just need advice. Hey appreciate it and thanks again. Mike

• This reply was modified 7 years ago by Michael Hordorwich.

[Michael HordorwichParticipant]

Oh and I've tried setting the bottom snare mic 57 of course with some eq of a 45-55hz high pass,added some 200hz, tons of 15db gain at 5kHz, comp almost limiting 10:1, att 1ms, release 200ms,threshold adjust heavy to get GR

[Jeff MacdonaldModerator]

This is some great stuff for sure, but I am going to set up a drum recording ideas thread in the recording techniques form so we don't completely hijack this thread. We can pick up the conversation over there as I could talk all day about drums and would love to find out more about your techniques.

[Jeff MacdonaldModerator]

I always throw a mic on the hat if I am playing as I have worked for years to not bash the crap out of my hat so I can get a much better snare and the result is it needs a boost in the mix. For other drummers it's worth having it there so you can push the fader on their headphone mix so they don't hit it as loud ;), at least that's what I do so I don't have to use as many samples on the back end. I'm with you on the bottom snare mic, they most often aren't needed in many modern productions, but I once worked with a plumber that told me "I'd rather be looking at it than looking for it" and that stuck. With digital recording I always print too much then start adding to my OHs until it's where I want it. It's a lazy habit, but it's worked for me so far, haha. As for the DBX 160X, they are great - the give you that fish slapped into plywood compression that DBX is known for. I am not lucky enough to have used an original 160VU, but I have seen a pair in every single studio tour Warren has done and in most they are used on drums so I joined the flock. I have some tracks to record this week and I'll make a note to try to get some snare and kick samples with different ratios and GR levels. I think my father (who is also an engineer) just picked up a 166 or 266 unit. I may go grab it and see if I can do some comparison work. He seems to enjoy that unit as a bass compressor to grab peaks on the way in - but he's only had it since boxing day. For the Audix, they just sound pre-eqed to me. I hate toms that go Boooiiiingggg (usually the culprit is equal tuning, or reso head lower than batter) but I find where the 421 is completely flat through the mid range I always have to scoop away and the D series don't have that. They have a slight bump at about 350 but are rather subdued in the 250-350 and 400-800 then have a really exaggerated top. I mean the 421s are industry standard, and if all the pros are using them they have to be great mics but I find them to be more work for my style of recording. The other major advantage is they are 1/4 the price and build like brick-shit-houses. I have hit them hard with 2B hickory drum sticks and they lived to tell about it. After all of this, I am going to give the 421s another shake, they only kicker for me is I like to play 4 toms and they take up so much room!!! 81's are great OH, I've only ever used them live cause I don't own them but I certainly would if I owned some - I don't exactly live in a used gear Mecca, so used equipment acquisition is certainly limited. I'd love to hear what you think of the Mojave as a mono room. I have been playing with mono rooms lately but I rarely use them in mixes as I find I prefer a wider stereo spread on my drums than they allow (again 100% personal preference).

[Michael HordorwichParticipant]

Yes I agree I can talk recording techniques for days. Meet ya there in new thread.

[Michael HordorwichParticipant]

Hey @tobybeaglebutler althouh this is a great idea looks like we need to refine it some and it'll probably be awhile to get a process started so was thinking of other ideas to fill the space between the feedback friday's. Try to get the forum more active while learning and have some fun. Thanks, mike

[Michael HordorwichParticipant]

Everyone, another idea i had was Mixing Teams. So 2 people pair up and both produce songs together. I think it would be a great way of interacting with academy members and also in the professional world this happens so it's a good way to learn how to work with others. We could even picks teams and then lets just say we could even pick one guy to be he producer and one to be the engineer. I think this would be a great way to prepare for working with others in the real world and especially for beginning engineers. What ya think. Also @Warren Huart what ya think of implementing this. I could create a detailed rules sheet and put something together if you think this is something that would work.

• This reply was modified 7 years ago by Michael Hordorwich.
• This reply was modified 7 years ago by Michael Hordorwich.
• This reply was modified 7 years ago by Michael Hordorwich.

[Robert WeirParticipant]

Hi everyone, newbie to the accadamy, just wondering how you upload tracks for feedback Friday, any help would be much appreciated many thanks, love listening to all the great work everyone is doing, big thanks to Warren

[Arthur LabusModerator]

Hi Robert.
Check the instructions: https://www.producelikeapro.com/forums/topic/feedback-friday-instructions/
Submit your mix in proper (extra sub forum for each song) sub forum as new thread.
Submit your mix here (for this week) : https://www.producelikeapro.com/forums/topic/feedback-friday-2-23-18/

BTW: the idea of feedback on own production is just an idea so far. Warren gives feedback on monthly academy mixes.

Feel free to ask if needed.

[Robert WeirParticipant]

Hi Arthur,
Thank you for the help really appropriate you pointing me in the right direction, probably going to have loads of questions in the coming weeks, take care, kind regards Rob

[Arthur LabusModerator]

You're welcome 😉
You can check some links from Signature as well. I tried to bounce some useful stuff there.
It is all new here for new members.

I reccomend that you introduce yourself here: https://www.producelikeapro.com/forums/forum/introduce-yourself/

Using the view: https://www.producelikeapro.com/forums/all/ is very useful, it is like "whatt happened last" list.

Happy mixing and ask 😀

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