Wide guitars that don't disappear in mono

[Luke WilliamsParticipant]

Hello all, this is my first post on any kind of Forum for a long time. I've been mixing my own bands for years with "mixed" levels of success. I use an old version of Cubase (Cubase 5) it does everything i've ever really needed. I mix entirely in the box and mainly on headphones as I don't have a space I can acoustically treat and I mainly mix at night after work while my kids are in bed.

I've been watching videos and reading books over the last couple of years, realised I was doing everything that would be frowned upon by any pro and started making changes. My question today is about getting big wide guitars that don't disappear in mono. I love the sound of double tracked guitar parts hard panned away from each other but find that the mix (doesn't necessarily fall apart but) loses impact in mono.

I was hoping to get some tips from you guys 🙂

Sorry in advance if my post is painful in any way, I'm a Forum noob, a terrible mixer.

Cheers \m/

[Mark HoldenParticipant]

Hello

Only been having go at this from start of the year but getting some good results from the help here. Using opposite reverb panning is one method Warren uses. i.e pan a guitar right and use a send to a reverb that is panned left.

but more suggestions are here:

https://www.youtube.com/user/WarrenHuartRecording/search?query=wide+guitars

[Luke WilliamsParticipant]

Thanks for taking the time to reply 🙂 I have tried the reverb trick but found my tight guitars started to sound a bit mushy. I shall watch the video you recommended, thanks again>

Luke

[Magnus EmilssonParticipant]

Hello Luke.

Make sure you're not tracking identical setup guitars, switch out the amps and/or the guitar so that they have a slightly different tonal balance. They will generally fold to mono much better then. Less chance of phase cancellation occurring.

/Magnus Emilsson

[KevinParticipant]

Hi Luke,

What you hear is perfectly explainable and it's all about "Phase Cancellation".

I don't often double a guitar part by using the same guitar. If the problem is that you have two takes of the two performances of a guitar part played on the same guitar, it's going to be very difficult to separate those two. The guitar parts will just sound very similar and the overtones of the part will tend to superimpose on each other.

In that situation, I would have suggested using a different guitar for the second part. If you only have one guitar then it may be possible to play the same but using different chord shapes. By using inversions of the chords and different positions on the neck, you utilize different strings for different notes, which automatically solves that phase cancelation that you have now.

If that's not possible, it may be possible to detune the guitar for the second take by a semitone and then put a capo on the first fret. Again, you are using different parts of the guitar, different strings, different hand positions and therefore different fundamental pitches of the native strings to play the same part but in a manner that will cause the overtones of the two parts to be different, which also solves your problem entirely.

I hope this helps.

Have fun,

Kevin

[Mark HoldenParticipant]

Hello

What I've been doing is using the neck pick up of one take and the bridge for the other, my thoughts where to get a fully sound but I guess this would also help with Phase issues. Would I be right? worth trying either way.

Mark

[KevinParticipant]

You tell me, you did the experiment. I’m not a guitarist but I am quite sure it will create wideness because you produce a different tone as well as you record a second take. The question however is if the guitars don’t collapse or become muddy if you monitor in mono.

[Mark HoldenParticipant]

Hello Kevin

All seemed well with my guitars I feel it works well 🙂

Mark

[KevinParticipant]

Hi Mark,

Your way probably is the easiest way to achieve this then. It's never a bad thing to know different ways to do things. Thanks for sharing.

Regarding your new thumbnail: Wtf, Mark? You look like Tom Selleck from the Magnum series. LOL!

[Mark HoldenParticipant]

Hello Kevin

Yes you can blame Mark Peacock for that but it will do till I point a camera at myself, and I had forgotten how great that theme was.

Mark

[Luke WilliamsParticipant]

Thanks to you all for taking the time to reply to me. I do always use the same guitar and change pick ups but I'll start using a second guitar or the de-tuning trick. Looking forward to my next recording session so I can try this out.

Thanks again 🙂

[Mark HoldenParticipant]

That's interesting Luke as you have been doing what I have been doing. Maybe by pick ups have a great variation in sound. I also would grab a second I tend to go for a set of 10's on one and 9's on the other as well.

Mark

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