'Valerie' Collaboration Ajay, Tony and John.

[Andrew (AKA Ajay)Participant]

Thanks for your feedback Steve!

[John Elleson-HartleyParticipant]

Hey guys!

Thanks for your patience on my reply to this. Not used to the forum and believe I needed to be subscribed? I am now so will hopefully be notified.

Lovely work and Mix Tony with a good overall balance. Those congas are fab Ajay plus work beautiful where they're place.

Agree on the bass comment being a tad loud. Particularly prominent in the 150Hz region. Top sizzle of the tambourine is what's getting me, making it feel in front of the vocal. The vocal isn't that "airy" (which I like) so the tamb is in front. Think if the top end was sorted then the general level of it works for me.

My main point would be just on some resonant frequencies on the vocal. Particularly notice at the start, with BVs, and the last note - the c.633Hz one. Have done some adjustments to help show what I'm saying for comparison - find it can be useful to see and hear. Hope it's useful!

Download here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3jf00ou8cyb26qj/ValerieFeedback.mp4?dl=0

Of course, this is on the mix so other things are being adjusted when I'd want them on individual instruments.

Cheers, J

[Tony LoignonParticipant]

Thanks for the feedback.

- I went with Steve's comment of the Tambo being too dominant throughout and dropped it to sit as a supporting instrument.
- Dropped the bass 2db
- Added some mid-range and low-end to the kick to get sub and 2d harmonic content.
- added body to the rhythm guitars and changed room verb for a spring verb.
- did a bunch of mid-side eq on the stereo busses.
- removed the click 😉

Congas wide:
https://soundcloud.com/bemelodic/kaetlyn-kashmir-valerie-1/s-qaFn7

Congas narrow:
https://soundcloud.com/bemelodic/kaetlyn-kashmir-valerie-2/s-NjJfD

Let me know what you think.

Tony

[Anonymous]

Thanks for taking the effort and time doing those mixes Tony.

I'm not sure what to think now. The narrow version of the congas (which I suggested) seems a bit lackluster, in that it's harder to hear them now. Also the tambourine has receded perhaps too far.

Therefore, I've gone back to base one. Listened to the original supplied PLAP mix, listened to Tony's original mix (First Cut) then Tony's V2 mix, listened to John's master, listened to Tony's last two. I've listened to all at least twice. I've enjoyed it because because I love that song.

This is all I can come up with:

John's master sounds pretty good overall, but there seems to be phasing issues. Maybe deliberate phase/flange effect? I'm not sure, but I think it detracts from the mix.

Tony's V2 sounds nicely balance, but I thought the tambourine and congas didn't sit right, hence my previous comments. Don't get me wrong, I love the tambo's and congas, they absolutely MAKE the style of this mix - very important.

So, what about if they were "highlighted" in the mix? What I mean is that instead of throughout, just in the appropriate areas? Also, I can't hear much kick/bass in the mix - I hear when the bass guitar comes in, but not the kick.

Cheers, Steve.

[John Elleson-HartleyParticipant]

Definitely the wide version gets my vote for the width of the congas Tony, plus definitely a smoother mix than the previous one. Nicely done 🙂

Love the low end, and balance, of the kick but not really hearing any top end to it so would be lost on smaller speaker/earbuds. The shaker is lovely and lush. Agree with Steve that the tambo could come up - a dB or 2? The bass has disappeared a lot. Was much more prominent in V2 and liked that. The guitar appears to have dropped as well from V2 and that I prefer.

@Steve Interesting about the phasing issues. Only thing I can think of, did you download the video rather than streaming from Dropbox? You'll definitely have issues if listening to the lower quality stream. Plus, that wasn't a master by any means 😉 Just a visual/audio representation of what I was explaining re frequencies.

Cheers 🙂

[Anonymous]

Well well well John... I downloaded the file and it does sound better!... My apparent "phasing" issues are diminished - although I still think there is a minor problem, with phasing and it doesn't sound good in my view.

So then, I have to think about all my evaluations and critical analysis (not many) on this forum are defunct!!!

It's thrown me off a bit. If I can't believe what I'm hearing, via posts on this forum, then why and how can I ever make an informed judgement of what I hear?

[Andrew (AKA Ajay)Participant]

Hey guys!

The mix is sounding really good.
I actually like both conga versions. Although at first, I chose the narrow mix, after listening to them both again I too choose the wide version.

Tony, if you could make those final adjustments that John and Steve suggested, of which I agree, then we can have John do the master.

Thanks for your interest in our project Steve, I appreciate your helpful feedback and suggestions.

Looking forward to hearing the final master.....getting close now!
Ajay.

[Anonymous]

Hey guys, I shouldn't have poked my nose into this anyway/s. It was my first main interaction/collaboration on this forum. I don't understand the protocol. This is not MY collaboration - you guys have done all the work, I just came in at the last moment giving, um... hopefully worthwhile info.

[John Elleson-HartleyParticipant]

Steve - Glad that the downloaded file sounded better for your and diminished your issues. Though I'm not sure what you mean by there still being a minor phasing problem. I'm always open to not hearing something but all I can hear that might be what you're talking about is like a touch of chorus effect type sound? Unfortunately, I can't comment on any evaluations you've made as not understanding what your dealing with when listening. As for poking your nose in - I'm new too and I thought you commenting here was part of the exercise for extra feedback and normal. It's always good to hear from others and is valued. One doesn't have to accept or agree with the feedback. Ultimately it's Ajay's role as producer to make the final call 🙂

Ajay Excellent! Sounds like it's getting close now 🙂

• This reply was modified 4 years ago by John Elleson-Hartley.
• This reply was modified 4 years ago by John Elleson-Hartley.
• This reply was modified 4 years ago by John Elleson-Hartley.

[Tony LoignonParticipant]

Hey guys,

Just finalized v4, I've checked phasing with Waves Inphase across all the tracks, There were 2-3 tracks that were slightly off <10ms but have aligned those now.
I also boosted kick top-end (500-3k) considerably +12db with a wide Q so we don't get just click. In my view, it sounds better and will translate to small speakers.
I added 1db to the bass, it pops out a bit more.
Added 1db to the Tambo, now it sits much better.

I put the hi-res wav below.... please have a listen, if all is good, John it's all yours ready for polishing. 😉

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7huutfpvpyr9sqd/Kaetlyn%20Kashmir%20-%20Valerie%20%28Cover%29%20-%20Final%20Mix%20v4.wav?dl=0

[Anonymous]

A touch of overall "chorus" is what I thought I heard and too much of it (sorry) 🙂

Apart from that, there is, ummmm..., another issue. It's to do with where the congas come in.

From the first time I heard this mix, I was thrown out by the sound because you get a couple of beats from the congas (right hand side), then thrown somehow now on the left. It was surprising and it put me off. Therefore I was always listening to the congas, which I don't think are right. (timing)

I'm not saying I don't like the congas. I LOVE the congas. My brother is a drummer and he has some bongos which have been used many times :). and usually I play bass, so I have good timing skills.

If this version is about congas, shakers, tambourine, then make it proud and strong, and come in (and out) at the best time. 🙂 🙂 Woof it up!!! 🙂

I'm just saying it as I feel. Don't mean to offend.

Cheers 🙂

[Andrew (AKA Ajay)Participant]

Thanks again, Tony.

I'm really happy with Version 4, it's a well-balanced mix and I agree with you that the bass drum is a lot better now, awesome!

John, could you please go ahead and download the file and begin mastering, please?

Steve,
The whole idea here was/is to share this project with everyone in the academy so hopefully, we can all learn from each other. You weren't "poking" your nose in, you did exactly what I was expecting from members, helping, sharing, contributing and most of all, learning!
I'm really not sure where the problems you're hearing are coming from, the track sounds good through all my monitoring sources here in the studio. What's your listening environment like?
As for the congas. I'm playing a pattern that starts on the 11" Quinto which is panned right-hand side then followed by the Conga 12" on the left, then a "slap" sound back on the Quinto. So I think it might be confusing because there are actually two drums involved playing an unconventional rhythm that has been split into two, left and right. I think the rhythm is good, it's based on 16th notes:

( Q=Quinto C=Conga S=Slap B=Bassdrum )

1 + 2 a e+ 4 a
Q C S Q QC S Q
B B

Thanks again for all your input guys, can't wait to hear it final master.

Chat soon!
Ajay

• This reply was modified 4 years ago by Andrew (AKA Ajay).

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