New Construction Questions

[Jeff MacdonaldModerator]

Hi John,

I am in the process of doing some planning for a new build I am going to be doing this summer. I am really racking my brain over types of treatments to build. I seem to have found a lot of people raving about limp mass bass traps (the look to me like 3-4" of 703/705 with mass loaded vinyl behind it on a frame) as they claim to have superior bass trapping to superchunks in corners. What are your thoughts on this?

Also, are splayed walls necessary, or can a room based on an acoustic ratio of say (1:1.4:1.9) be the best starting point then treat to suit? Space is a bit of a concern for me as I am constructing an outbuilding and the city will only allow it have a certain footprint before I need to apply for re-zoning. I don't want to eat up too much of the interior space if I don't have to.

Would you use the same ratio for a tracking room as the control room? I am looking to construct a building with 2 different ceiling heights, right now I am thinking 14' on the tracking side and 10' on the control room side, this would allow for a slightly larger tracking space.

Finally, for your professional design services could you shed a bit of light on how the process would work? Specifically, are you able to give ball-park estimates relatively early into project scoping? I would love to have a professional design, but at the same time I don't want to waste your time having to quote something that I out of budget at this time.

Thank you very much in advance for your time.

Cheers,

Jeff

[John BrandtParticipant]

Hi Jeff,

1. Membrane traps.... work great! VERRRRY difficult to build correctly. usually end up a waste of time and money. Unless you have someone experienced helping you. That's why I'm an advocate of using regular building materials to do what you need done DIY. - By the way, 703 to 705 is used very sparingly in our builds. It is far too reflective at bass frequencies to be useful any deeper than 2". For this reason, most ALL commercially available traps around 2" thick are made from this stuff and that's why people think that it's the stuff to put in your studio! "Surpraiz! Surpraiz! Surpraiz!, Sergeant Carter...." - Gomer Pile. - Oh! by the way, the membrane trap that you just described will not work. It might work as an absorption device, but not as a working membrane trap.

2. Splayed walls are 'one' way to break up room modes. But a terrible waste of space. Notice that nearly all pro studios are based on a rectangular cuboid. Room mode calculators do not work for rooms with angled walls or ceilings. It can be calculated, but it is very difficult. I've done it a few times and it's such a pain that I prefer to just build it and test it afterward... but this is something that I hate to do. I don't like 'not knowing'. I don't like opening a 'box of chocolates', it's ususally more like a can of worms. 😛 - That said, go with a good room ratio, convert it to prime numbers and you're off to an extremely good start. There's a reason that Dolby Labs specify certain rectangular cuboid for their Dolby Certification. 😉

3. Tracking rooms are totally different animals. Control or critical listening rooms MUST be symmetrical, balanced, etc., etc., etc., but a tracking room is BEST Asymmetrical! Ceilings should be as high as you can possibly get them. Ratios don't matter. Angled walls and cubby holes are sometimes desirable as are rock walls, etc.

4. Yes, I give ball-park estimates on the cost of builds. It's not a big deal. I give out several a day. You can ask any pro... sometimes a big part of our day is spent talking with prospective clients and getting to know people. So ask away. I certainly don't mind.

Any time that I can help clear the air of answer honest questions, I'm happy to do so.

Cheers,
John

[Jeff MacdonaldModerator]

Thank you very much for your reply and saving me from building some less than useful and expensive traps!

When you mention prime numbers in the room dimensions are you referring to finished room dimensions, from finished floor to ceiling, and from drywall to drywall on walls? Also is there a particular ratio that works best in you opinion? The reason I ask is I am I am looking to ensure I can fit everything I want into the size limitations I am working with. Once I get a better understanding of what I can fit within the limitations I am working with I will be in touch for sure to explore your design services.

Cheers,

Jeff

[John BrandtParticipant]

Jeff,

Yes, Prime numbers will not have common denominators. They are only divisible by themselves and one. These apply to the interior finished dimensions; floor the hard ceiling and wall to hard wall. Not treatment or furniture.

Now when you are checking available rooms with a mode calc, bear in mind that you have limitations. Make the best of them. Oftentimes it is BETTER to have a larger room with less than perfect modal spread, than to have a smaller room with a better distribution.

If you would like to share your room dimensions here, I would be happy to share and explain for everyone here.

Cheers,
John

[Jeff MacdonaldModerator]

Hi John,

Hopefully I haven't missed the window for you being here, but on the chance you are still around thanks for the responses.

Based on our discussion so far, and thank you very much for that, the control room dimensions that would be most feasible for my build would be: 113" Height x 149" Width x 173" Length

The overall plan at this point is to have a 3 car garage constructed so the building dimensions would be 38' x 24' and within that I would like to house a lounge, a control room, and a large live room - I want to construct a facility that allows folks to record good drums (we are really lacking such spaces and I hope this tracking room is large enough - perhaps you could weigh in on that as well). I would like to keep the building so that it could be converted back into a garage if I end up having to move and sell so that sort of limits the size of the rooms. So I was thinking that I could design it in such a way that the control room/lounge would fit in the traditional (or at least eastern Canadian standard) single car garage with a 9.42' ceiling and the tracking room in a traditional 2 garage space with a ceiling height to 14'-16' (I know higher is better, but will there be a noticeable improvement with 2 feet of additional height? For some reason 14' lumber is exponentially cheaper here, but I'll certainly spend additional money to improve things.

I have attached a link to picture of the rough dimensions I have put together in sketchup since I cannot get a jpeg to attach. http://imgur.com/t9qVpgC

I really appreciate all of your help so far.

Cheers,

Jeff

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by Jeff Macdonald.
• This reply was modified 8 years ago by Jeff Macdonald.

[John BrandtParticipant]

Jeff,

A larger volume will, 99% of the time, produce a better result acoustically. So, yes, the increase in ceiling height by 2 feet would be an improvement.

But remember, you're going to need a ton of trapping to do it right. There are ways to do it so that you can keep your investment if you ever move.

CR size... hmmmm you 'might' have an issue at 60 Hz. Care should be taken there. (I'd give up a little more room from the lounge) - my 2 cents.

If you need my help, send me the .skp file and we can talk.
Cheers,
John

[Jeff MacdonaldModerator]

Hi John,

I have attached the skp file. I can certainly email it along as well if you'd prefer - please let me know. I very much appreciate your 2 cents and love learning something new and exciting! My rationale was simple in that I was just trying to fit the largest "ideal room" from your spreadsheet as possible into that space that still gave me a large tracking room.

Cheers,

Jeff

[John BrandtParticipant]

Jeff,

email it. I don't see the skp file.
Cheers,
John

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