Hybrid Mixing

[John RosarioParticipant]

I having trouble with my hybrid setup. I used to mix just in the box. My mixes came out good and never had complaints. My interface is a antelope audio orion studio 2017. I decided to upgrade my setup. I purchased a burl audio b32 mixbus summing amp , burl audio b2 adc and dac , burl audio b26 orca monitor section. This is my signal flow. 30 outputs of the orion into the burl b32 mixbus. The summed outputs of the burl b32 to a ssl fusion. The ssl fusion has an insert. I have a tegeler audio creme on it. The ssl fusion goes into a burl b2 adc. The burl b2 goes back into pro tools. My mixes sound very good in the studio. The mix thru the analog gear has more width and more weight. I was really happy until I check it in the car it sounds like crap. My room is treated and my using sonarworks reference 4. I dont know why my mixes are not translating. Im very frustrated. Can someone help me please?

John

[Magnus EmilssonParticipant]

Hello John.

It would help if you could describe how the mixes don't translate? Too much low end, no presence, phase issues.
If you could do a simple signal flow diagram including monitoring it would be most helpful.

These are some of the more obvious things I can think of:
* Sonarworks gets recorded on the mix for some reason, do you monitor after the b2 or before?
* Something else is connected over the monitoring channels that doesn't get recorded.
* One cable has it's polarity reversed that gets the signal twice, so it doesn't show up on your listening environment because it gets flipped back when monitoring.

/Magnus

[John RosarioParticipant]

Thanks for replying Magnus.
"It would help if you could describe how the mixes don't translate? Too much low end, no presence, phase issues."
There no presence no clarity. The mix is muddy. Too much low end its distorted . The mix doesn't sound like what I mixed in the studio.
My signal flow

Orion > Burl B32 mixbus > SSL Fusion (I have a tegeler audio creme on the insert of the SSL Fusion) > Burl ADC > Pro Tools.

Im using db25 coming out of the orion into the Burl B32. From the Burl B32 to the SSL Fusion Im using XLR cables Left and Right. On the insert on the SSL Fusion to the Tegeler Creme are xlr cables. The outputs of the SSL Fusion to the Burl B2 ADC are XLR cables. The Burl B2 ADC into the interface pro tools Im using a spdif cable. How I connect the the burl dac. I came out of my interface spidf into the Burl b2 dac then out of the dac into Burl Audio B26 Orca - Control Room Monitor. Im also using a external clock to clock everything. The Clock is Black Lion XD MKIII.
I disable sonarworks when I print the mix. Im monitoring after the Burl dac.

I wonder if its one of the word clock cables. Or could it be the Spidf cable that come out of the burl b2 adc into my interface that feeds pro tools.
I also record my mix into pro tools. I dont use the bounce to disk feature into pro tools.
Thanks again Magnus for response. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I hope I made sense.

John

• This reply was modified 4 years ago by John Rosario.
• This reply was modified 4 years ago by John Rosario.
• This reply was modified 4 years ago by John Rosario.
• This reply was modified 4 years ago by John Rosario.

[Magnus EmilssonParticipant]

Hello again John.

So if I get this right your monitoring chain while mixing is (A/D notes connection type digital or analog)
Protools D-> Orion A-> B32 A-> Fusion A-> B2 ADC D-> Orion D-> Protools D-> Sonarworks D-> Orion D-> B2 DAC A-> B26

I would at least try to bypass parts of the chain to see it that helps. First I would try going Fusion -> Orion and then Orion -> B26 and bypassing the B2's one by one. Just to troubleshoot. Also check up on the S/PDIF specifications for your units, originally it only supports 20 bits, if some of your gear conforms hard to the standard that might be a source of problem (unlikely though in this day and age).

I would also try and use the Orion (main interface) as the main clock source, just to check.

Record the same thing through different setups and then you can check the difference, both by reversing phase and look at cancellation and also by ear in the car. Then you can make some informed decisions about where your problems stem from.

/Magnus

[John RosarioParticipant]

Hi Magnus.

My mixing chain is

Pro tools D > Orion A > B32 A > Fusion A > B2 Adc D > Pro Tools D > Orion D > B2 Dac A > B26 Monitoring

Thanks for the advice. I really didnt want to start disconnecting cables and trouble shooting. But you are right. That is the right way to do it. I didnt think about checking the spdif spec on my units. Very good idea.

John

[John RosarioParticipant]

Hi Magnus.

I believe I found my problem. In the Orion software I had S/PDIF SRC box checked. By checking the S/PDIF SRC box it would use the internal sample rate of the orion. I was using an external clock clocking at 96. But the internal clock of the orion set to 44.1. I going to reprint the mixbus again after work. I really dont think I would have figure it out if it was the spidf problem coming from my orion. Thanks again Magnus This is what the manual says.

S/PDIF SRC
By clicking on this button the S/PDIF input is sample rate converted to match the sample rate
of the Orion Studio internal clock (eg. If you want the clock to run at 192 kHz and your S/
PDIF input is at 44.1 kHz, simply press this button to match the sample rate frequency of
the Orion Studio internal clock).

Thanks for the help Magnus

• This reply was modified 4 years ago by John Rosario.

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