A mixing question.

[Tiancong XiaParticipant]

Hi! I have a mixing question. I found it hard to separate my vocal/acoustic guitar/electric guitar as they are in similar frequency. Could anyone tell me which is the typical pocket for them frequency wise? For example, what frequency should I curve in guitars EQ to make room for vocals?

Thanks a lot mixers!

[Guido tum SudenKeymaster]

Hi, that depends on the song and how important the guitar is (or the vocals). If there are more than two instruments, use panning.
Which part of your voice interferes? Vowels? Consonants?
If it's difficult to hear, look at an audio spectrum analyzer and see which parts of your voice and the guitar are interfering with each other.
Then use an EQ and hear if you still like the results.
If the interfering occurs only on certain vowels or notes you could try to use a multi band eq or multi band compressor. A de-esser could do the same if it goes low enough.

Guido

[Tiancong XiaParticipant]

Thanks a lot Guido. This confused me many times. I thought there is certain formula for this. Like 1k--1.5k Hz is the vocal area and curve out those in Guitars would give vocals room. But you're right, it always goes down to specific cases.

My ears are still very beginner and if I look at the audio spectrum, they are all similar to me.. Vocals has more 1.5 k, acoustic has a bit more 1k and amps has a bit more 2k.

For the multiband-eq/compressor technique you mentions, should I sidechain it to the other track, or just compress the track itself to make it more even?

[Magnus EmilssonParticipant]

Hey!

As a rule of thumb the area between 2.5 - 3.5 kHz is the part of the vocal that gives it legibility. Where in that area depends a bit on the voice. But panning is the easiest way to make room, as Guido said. Keeping the vocal and the main vocal effects dead center and moving the other parts out a little bit. Doesn't need to be all the way. From about 20% panning on the guitars will make a huge difference. Then you can throw a delay or reverb to the other side to compensate "the mix leaning to one side or the other". Pan the acoustic about 20% left, the electric 20% right and the reverse for each instruments reverb/delay. Then you can automate the amount of pan between verse and chorus to make the chorus feel wider, if you want that effect.

Otherwise it's all about carving out space, with relatively smooth moves, usually nothing more than +-3db is needed. I would usually start by giving the electric guitar 120hz & 1.5 kHz, the acoustic 400 hz  & the top end (4 kHz and above) and the vocal 250 hz, 600 hz & 3khz and above (for air). Low & hipass anything that isn't needed. I recommend cutting before boosting.

Other tools to make parts stand out and reduce masking is using different styles of compression, the brains is pretty good at separating transients but really bad at sustains. You'll notice this if you cut off the start of a sound and play it back, gets really hard to tell if it is a guitar, piano or some other string instrument. So by enhancing the transients you can make the instruments stand out while still blending.

/Magnus

[Tiancong XiaParticipant]

Thanks a lot Magnus!! I'll take these down. A question tho, you said, "I would usually start by giving the electric guitar 120hz & 1.5 kHz, the acoustic 400 hz  & the top end (4 kHz and above) and the vocal 250 hz, 600 hz & 3khz and above (for air). " Are these the frequencies I need to boost respectively or cut from all the other interfering instruments?

I also low-pass a lot for the vocal, electric and acoustic guitars to make room for the vocal and , which takes away a lot of mid-low. In the end the song sounds hollow. From what you just said, I think the bass and mid-low part is still very important to them (bass for vocal and electric guitar and mid-low for acoustic guitar).

• This reply was modified 2 years ago by Tiancong Xia.

[Magnus EmilssonParticipant]

Those are the frequencies of each instrument I would feature. Of course, the freqs. depends on key of song, instruments, playing style and recording. Think of them as areas instead of frequencies.

/Magnus

[Tiancong XiaParticipant]

Understood! Thank you very much!

[Guido tum SudenKeymaster]

I remember that I used a table from Bobby Owsinski's handbook. Luckily that table is online now:
https://bobbyowsinskiblog.com/2017/02/15/magic-frequencies/

Examples why it depends on the song:
You have two tracks of guitars playing (almost) the same: you can pan them hard left and right.
The song sounds good with a scooped out guitar sounds: shouldn't be a problem with vocals.
The acoustic guitar strums but there are other instruments to identify the chords: that guitar could be used more as a rhythmic instrument.
The acoustic guitar is picking patterns and it's the only instrument: now there could be a problem.
…
Do you have a little excerpt from your music to listen to?

Guido

[Tiancong XiaParticipant]

Hi Guido! Sorry for the late reply, I was on holiday and didn't check my email. This handbook is exactly what I was looking for! This is so nice!

With "The song sounds good with a scooped out guitar sounds", did you mean other instrument already carved out the frequencies for the guitar sounds?

I do have my first mix after I join this community. Posted it in the forum and haven't got any feedback yet. Would you please be so kind to give me some feedback on this?:   https://academy.producelikeapro.com/forums/topic/fire-tiancong-mix/

 

[TripWillie 2Participant]

Hello, I've noticed some comments on my mixes point to my panning choices. I'm wondering if I understand the basic setup and perspective to mix from.  My question is, does the engineer have the freedom to choose to mix from the audience or band perspective. I always assumed the audience side was the more acceptable. That said, in the placement of the instruments; is there a " " industry accepted specific manner to place Lead and rhythm guitars, Bass, Drums, Keys lead or rhythm ect. Typical band setup. I really enjoy mixing these things up but is it to much a distraction for the listener ? I know, first world problems  🙂

Please, I just need some perspective from others with experience dealing with producers and artists in the real world, not in " The Box". Thanks !

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